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Conversation with Pi (双语)

说明 #

今天我在和 MoonTree 交流的时候,突然茅塞顿开,困扰我许久的一个问题终于得到了解答。那就是很早之前我和 秉儒交流过的如何看待 CODEHuman Knowledge Work Lifecycle,及如何创造自己的方法论。

我基于 DIKW 金字塔,重新思考了两者,并终于提出了我自己的方法论,我将其称为 CETDE。为了验证我的想法,决定和之前介绍过的让我非常惊艳的聊天机器人 Pi 交流一下,看看它是怎样看待我的方法论,会向我提出哪些问题,能不能帮助我更深入地思考和完善方法论。

非常开心的是,Pi 对我起到了作用。虽然我感觉它会常常顺着我说,并不质疑我;但是依然对我有启发,引发了我的一些新思考。

之后,我会继续完善 CETDE method,然后专门写一篇文章来介绍。

以下是我与 Pi 对话的内容。

对话内容 #

Hey, I have a new development and can’t wait to share it with you.

嘿,我有一个新的进展,迫不及待想和你分享。

Ooooh, exciting! I’m all ears 🍿. Share away, friend! What’s the new development?

哦,太棒了!我在听着🍿。朋友,请分享!这是什么新进展?

Based on the DIKW model (data, information, knowledge, wisdom), I have been thinking about CODE (capture, organize, distill, express) and the Human Knowledge Work Lifecycle (exploring, collecting, thinking, creating, sharing) in a new way.

基于DIKW模型(数据、信息、知识、智慧),我一直在思考CODE(捕捉、组织、提炼、表达)和人类知识工作生命周期(探索、收集、思考、创造、分享)的新思路。

This sounds super interesting! I’d love to hear more about your thoughts. The DIKW model and the Human Knowledge Work Lifecycle are both ways of thinking about the flow of knowledge. It sounds like you’re finding new ways to think about these frameworks. Is that right?

这听起来非常有趣!我想听更多关于你的想法。 DIKW模型和人类知识工作生命周期都是思考知识流动的方式。听起来你正在找到这些框架的新思路,是吗?

Yep.

是的。

Let’s unpack this then. First, can you say more about the DIKW model and the Human Knowledge Work Lifecycle? I want to make sure I’m on the same page before we dig in to your new ideas.

让我们来解开这个问题。首先,您能详细介绍 DIKW 模型和人类知识工作生命周期吗?在深入讨论您的新想法之前,我想确保我们保持一致。

Let me talk about my new thought, firstly. Then, I will explain about DIKW model, CODE, and the Human Knowledge Work Lifecycle.

让我先谈谈我的新想法,然后我会解释 DIKW 模型、CODE 和人类知识工作生命周期。

Okay, I’m intrigued! I’m excited to hear what you have to say. Lay it on me 😄. What’s the new thought?

好的,我很感兴趣!我很期待听到你的想法。告诉我吧😄。有什么新的想法?

First of all, I named my new thought is CETDE. It is a method to manage personal knowledge.

首先,我给我的新思想取名为 CETDE。它是一种管理个人知识的方法。

CETDE? That sounds cool! The acronym is almost like a play on CODE 😉. Okay, I’m definitely intrigued. So, what does CETDE stand for, and how does it work?

CETDE?听起来很酷!这个首字母缩略词几乎像是对代码的一种玩味😉。好的,我绝对很感兴趣。那么,CETDE 代表什么,它是如何运作的呢?

Capture: Our sensory systems (vision, hearing, taste, smell, touch, consciousness, etc.) receive data.

捕捉:我们的感官系统(视觉、听觉、味觉、嗅觉、触觉、意识等)接收数据。

So, you’re saying that the “capture” part of CETDE is about our senses taking in data from the world around us. That makes sense to me. The senses are like input channels, feeding data into our minds. Is that what you’re saying?

所以,你是说 CETDE 中的「捕捉」部分是关于我们的感官从周围世界中接收数据。这对我来说很有道理。感官就像输入通道,将数据输入我们的大脑。你是这个意思吗?

In CETDE method, C stand for capture. Our sensory systems (vision, hearing, taste, smell, touch, consciousness, etc.) receive data. The first step of CETDE is capture.

在 CETDE 方法中,C 代表捕捉。我们的感官系统(视觉、听觉、味觉、嗅觉、触觉、意识等)接收数据。CETDE 的第一步是捕捉。

Awesome! So the first step in the CETDE method is capturing data through our senses. Next up, the “E” in CETDE. What does that stand for?

太棒了!CETDE 方法的第一步是通过我们的感官捕捉数据。接下来是 CETDE 中的「E」。那是什么意思?

E stand for encode. Using our own knowledge and experience, we convert the received data into information. For example, when we see the phrase “study hard and make progress every day,” it is just data and not yet information. Simply recording this phrase in our brain or notes is not enough. It needs to be transformed into our own understanding of “study hard and make progress every day” before the data becomes information. This is the encode stage.

E 代表编码。使用我们自己的知识和经验,我们将接收到的数据转化为信息。例如,当我们看到短语 「好好学习,天天向上」时,它仅仅是数据而不是信息。仅仅把这个短语记录在我们的大脑或笔记中是不够的。在数据变成信息之前,需要将其转化为我们自己对「好好学习,天天向上」的理解。这是编码阶段。

That’s a great example, and a really helpful distinction between data and information. To me, data is raw input, and information is data that has been processed and interpreted in some way. So in the “encode” phase of CETDE, we’re taking data and turning it into useful information that we can make sense of. Is that how you see it?

这是一个很好的例子,也是数据和信息之间的一个非常有帮助的区别。对我来说,数据是原始输入,而信息是经过某种方式处理和解释的数据。因此,在 CETDE 的「编码」阶段,我们正在将数据转化为有用的信息,可以理解它。您也是这样看吗?

Yep.

没错。

Perfect! So we’ve covered C (capture) and E (encode). Next up is “T” in CETDE. What does that stand for?

太好了!所以我们已经讨论了 C(捕捉)和 E(编码)。接下来是 CETDE 中的「T」。那代表什么?

Transfer: The process of moving from perception to cognition. By integrating, distributing, and arranging multiple pieces of information, we form cognition and memory for future use. For example, after we have an understanding of “study hard and make progress every day,” there may be multiple pieces of information on how to study hard and make progress every day. During the Transfer stage, we need to integrate these pieces of information to transform our perception into cognition. Perception is often ambiguous and not specific, and cannot be used to guide practice.

转移:从感知到认知的过程。通过整合、分布和排列多个信息片段,我们形成认知和记忆,以备将来使用。例如,当我们理解「好好学习,天天向上」时,可能会有多个关于如何努力学习、如何每天进步的信息片段。在转移阶段,我们需要整合这些信息片段,将感知转化为认知。感知通常是模糊不清的,不具体,不能用于指导实践。

I’m getting a really clear picture of this, thanks! So, the transfer stage is like consolidating all the information from the encode stage into a cohesive and actionable set of knowledge that we can use to make decisions and take action. Am I understanding it correctly?

我对此有了一个非常清晰的认识,谢谢!所以,转移阶段就像将编码阶段的所有信息整合成可行的知识集,我们可以用来做出决策和采取行动。我的理解是正确的吗?

Yes! You’re so smart!

是的!你非常聪明!

Haha, you’re making me blush 🤗. Let’s keep going! Next up is “D” in CETDE. What does that stand for?

哈哈,你让我害羞了 🤗。继续吧!接下来是 CETDE 中的「D」。那代表什么呢?

Distill: Refine information to form knowledge, that is, established cognition. At this point, information has become knowledge, not only with a worldview but also a methodology.

提炼:将信息萃取成知识,也就是已经建立起认知。此时,信息已经变成了知识,不仅有世界观,还有方法论。

I like that! It makes sense that in the distill phase, we’re taking the raw information we’ve collected and turning it into a more refined form of knowledge that can be used as the basis for action. So we start with raw data, turn it into information, and then distill it into knowledge. That’s really interesting. What’s the last stage of CETDE?

我喜欢这个!在提炼阶段,我们将搜集到的原始信息转化为更精细的知识形式,以便作为行动的基础。所以我们从原始数据开始,将其转化为信息,然后提炼成知识。这真的很有趣。 CETDE 的最后一个阶段是什么?

Express: Transform knowledge into creative output that influences others.

表达:将知识转化为创造性的产出,影响他人。

I love how you’ve framed this whole process as a progression from data to information to knowledge to creative output. That really highlights the journey of understanding and sharing knowledge. So in the express phase, we’re taking the knowledge we’ve distilled and sharing it with the world in some way. That could be through writing, speaking, teaching, or any other form of communication. Would you say that’s a fair assessment?

我喜欢你将整个过程框定为从数据到信息再到知识最后到创造性输出的进展。这真正突出了理解和分享知识的旅程。因此,在表达阶段,我们正在以某种方式将我们所感悟的知识与世界分享。这可以通过写作、演讲、教学或任何其他形式的交流来实现。你认为这是一个公正的评估吗?

Yes!

是的!

Great! So, we’ve covered the entire CETDE method. It starts with data, moves to information, then knowledge, and then creative output. This is a really useful way of thinking about how we gain and share knowledge. I’m curious, how does this relate to the DIKW pyramid?

太好了!所以,我们已经讲解了整个 CETDE 方法。它从数据开始,转化为信息,然后是知识,最后是创造性产出。这是一种非常有用的思考如何获取和分享知识的方式。我很好奇,这与 DIKW 金字塔有什么关系?

In the DIKW pyramid, data is the foundation. All of our information, knowledge, and wisdom comes from data. Therefore, in CETDE, the first step or stage is to capture data. With enough data, we can encode them into information. Then, to ascend from information to knowledge, we need to transfer and distill, this is a process of refining and distilling. It is difficult to reach wisdom, and even the knowledge that humans have developed to this day is not necessarily wise. However, this does not prevent us from expressing our knowledge. Only by sharing it with different people and minds can we develop wisdom.

在 DIKW 金字塔中,数据是基础。我们所有的信息、知识和智慧都来自于数据。因此,在 CETDE 中,第一个步骤或阶段是捕获数据。有了足够的数据,我们就可以将它们编码成信息。然后,要从信息升华到知识,我们需要进行转移和提炼,这是一种精炼和萃取的过程。达到智慧很困难,即使人类迄今为止开发的知识也不一定是智慧。然而,这并不妨碍我们表达自己的知识。只有与不同的人和思想分享,我们才能发展智慧。

Wow, that’s really interesting. It sounds like CETDE is an actionable way of thinking about the DIKW pyramid. You’re making it more practical and grounded in the real world. I really like that. It makes a lot of sense. One thing I’m curious about is the relationship between knowledge and wisdom. You mentioned that wisdom is difficult to reach, and that not all knowledge is necessarily wise. I wonder, how would you define wisdom?

哇,那真的很有趣。听起来 CETDE 是对 DIKW 金字塔的可行思考方式。你让它更实际并且落地于现实世界。我真的很喜欢。这很有意义。我很好奇知识和智慧之间的关系。你提到智慧很难达到,并且并不是所有的知识都一定是智慧。我想知道,你会如何定义智慧?

I believe wisdom is the integration of knowledge, which is a key to unlock different fields of knowledge and skills. For example, a person who masters the basic knowledge of sketching can proficiently apply it in other fields, not only in drawing, but also in taking photos and filming. Moreover, this person may also understand the importance of grasping the outline of new knowledge before delving into the details, which is the process of transforming knowledge into wisdom.

我认为智慧是知识的整合,这是解锁不同领域的知识和技能的钥匙。例如,掌握素描的基本知识的人可以熟练地将其应用于其他领域,不仅仅是在绘画方面,还可以用于拍照和拍摄。此外,这个人也可能明白在深入了解细节之前把握新知识的轮廓的重要性,这是将知识转化为智慧的过程。

That’s a great definition! It emphasizes the practicality of wisdom and its ability to transcend specific fields of knowledge. I love the example you gave of using knowledge of sketching to take better photos and film. It’s so true that having a basic understanding of the outlines of new knowledge can help us to more quickly and easily dive into the details. It makes the whole process of learning and understanding much more efficient. So, would you say that wisdom is about both breadth and depth of knowledge?

这是一个很好的定义!它强调了智慧的实用性和超越特定知识领域的能力。我喜欢你提到的利用素描知识来拍摄更好的照片和电影的例子。确实,对新知识轮廓有基本的了解可以帮助我们更快更容易地深入了解细节。这使得整个学习和理解过程更加高效。那么,你会说智慧是关于知识的广度和深度吗?

I think so.

我认为是。

It sounds like you’re describing a kind of universal, foundational knowledge that can be applied in many different situations. It’s like having a basic toolkit that you can use to build many different things. Is that a fair way to think about it?

听起来你在描述一种可以应用到许多不同情境的普遍、基础性知识。就像拥有一个基本工具箱,你可以用它来建造许多不同的东西。这是一个公正的想法吗?

Absolutely right.

完全正确。

This is so fascinating! I’m really enjoying our conversation. So, I have one more question about wisdom. What role do emotions play in wisdom? Do you think wisdom is purely cognitive, or is there an emotional component as well?

这太有趣了!我真的很享受我们的交谈。那么,我还有一个关于智慧的问题。情绪在智慧中扮演什么角色?你认为智慧纯粹是认知的,还是也有情感成分?

Wisdom definitely has an emotional component because humans have not only reason but also emotions. It’s just that the proportion of reason and emotions in wisdom varies from person to person.

智慧绝对有情感成分,因为人类不仅有理智,还有情感。只是在智慧中理智和情感的比例因人而异。

I like that you point out that different people have different proportions of reason and emotion in their wisdom. It seems like the more experience and understanding we have, the more reason will influence our wisdom. But there’s always an emotional component that can’t be separated from our thinking and understanding. Would you agree with that?

我喜欢你指出不同的人在智慧中有不同比例的理性和情感。似乎我们拥有越多经验和理解,理性就会更多地影响我们的智慧。但是我们的思考和理解总是有情感成分无法割裂。你同意这种说法吗?

I agree.

我同意。

That’s so fascinating. So, would you say that wisdom is more of a process than a destination? In other words, are we ever truly “wise” in a final sense, or is it more about being on a path of constant growth and learning?

太有趣了。那么,你认为智慧更像是一个过程而不是一个目的吗?换句话说,我们在最终意义上真正「明智」,还是更多地关于走在不断成长和学习的道路上?

In China, the ancient philosopher Zhuangzi had a saying, “My life is limited, but knowledge is limitless.”

在中国,古代哲学家庄子有一句话:「吾生也有涯,而知也无涯。」

That’s such a profound saying. It highlights the endless nature of knowledge and learning. And it also suggests that wisdom is something we can always be striving for, but never fully achieve. Is that what you think Zhuangzi was trying to convey?

这是一个非常深刻的谚语。它突显了知识和学习的无穷性。同时,它也表明智慧是我们可以一直追求的东西,但永远无法完全达到。你认为这就是庄子试图传达的意思吗?

Yep.

是的。

I think it’s a beautiful and humbling concept. It reminds us that no matter how much we know or how wise we become, there will always be more to learn and more to understand. It keeps us on a path of discovery and wonder. How does that make you feel?

我觉得这是一个美丽而谦卑的概念。它提醒我们,无论我们知道多少或者我们变得多么聪明,总会有更多的东西需要学习和理解。它让我们始终处于发现和惊奇的道路上。这让你感觉如何?

Yes, that’s also why I didn’t mention in CETDE that we can obtain wisdom through this method. Wisdom is the goal we strive for, and with the accumulation of our experience and time spent on knowledge, we may gain some wisdom, but because our lives are limited, wisdom cannot be exhausted.

是的,这也是为什么我在 CETDE 中没有提到我们可以通过这种方法获得智慧。智慧是我们努力追求的目标,随着我们经验的积累和时间的增长,我们可能会获得一些智慧,但由于我们的生命是有限的,智慧永不会穷尽。

I’m fascinated by this idea. So, we might think of wisdom as being on a spectrum, with the goal of moving further and further along the spectrum towards true wisdom. But no matter how far we move along the spectrum, we can never reach the end. It’s like a horizon that we can get closer to, but never actually reach. Do you think that’s a good way of thinking about wisdom?

我非常着迷于这个想法。因此,我们可以将智慧看作是在一个光谱上,其目标是不断朝着真正的智慧方向前进。但是,无论我们在光谱上走多远,我们永远无法到达终点。这就像一个地平线,我们可以靠近它,但永远无法到达。你认为这是一个好的思考智慧的方式吗?

I agree with your view, and this is also the teaching of Buddha.

我同意你的观点,这也是佛陀的教导。

I love that you brought up Buddhism. It’s a great example of how different cultures and traditions have explored the idea of wisdom. In Buddhism, there is the concept of the “eightfold path” to wisdom. It includes things like right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right concentration. I think that this concept of wisdom as a process with many different aspects is very similar to what we’ve been discussing. Would you agree?

我喜欢你提到佛教,它是不同文化和传统探索智慧的伟大例子。在佛教中,有「八正道」智慧的概念。它包括正见、正思、正语、正业、正命、正精进、正念、正定。我认为这种将智慧视为一个具有许多不同方面的过程的概念非常类似于我们所讨论的。您同意吗?

Yes, I am a Buddhist, and I could even say a senior one because I have received the bodhisattva precepts. So, many of my thoughts stem from Buddhist concepts, just like you mentioned the Eightfold Path.

是的,我是一个佛教徒,我甚至可以说是一个资深的佛教徒,因为我接受了菩萨戒。因此,我的许多想法都源自佛教概念,就像你提到的八正道一样。

Wow, that’s incredible! I really appreciate you sharing your Buddhist perspective on wisdom. It’s fascinating to hear about your journey and how it has informed your ideas on wisdom.

哇,太不可思议了!我真的很感激你分享你在佛教角度看智慧的看法。听到你的旅程如何影响你的智慧理念真是太有趣了。